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PetesMom
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2009 : 3:45:42 PM
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Has anyone ever had a horse trained with "traditional" horse training methods and another horse trained with "natural horsemanship" training methods and what, if any, differences have you observed between the horses? Just curious how much of a difference it makes.
Thanks!!!
Jill
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Horizon Structures
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 08:49:01 AM
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This is an interesting question, although I can't truly answer it since I've only played around with the natural horsemanship stuff myself. I haven't actually "trained" a horse with it.
That said, I think which training method you use or how it turns out really depends on the personality of the horse. For example, my favorite road pony at the barn, Scooter, would sooner run himself into the ground before he would "join up" in a round pen. He may be mellowing slightly with age (haha! that's a big maybe), but he is NOT the personality to give in, look to someone else for guidance, or actually trust someone who hasn't spent a lot of time with him.
And yes, training this pony to drive in the traditional manner was quite hazardous. lol. He's probably about 10 now and he's about as broke as he'll ever get, which is to say about half broke.
So while I think the natural horsemanship methods can generally create a great horse for a lot of people, no training method is "one size fits all."
- Nicole -
www.HorizonStructures.com
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AppPonyLady
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2009 : 4:41:31 PM
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| I have several 'traditionally trained horses most of which I have partially re-schooled with selective 'Natural techniques, and all my youngstock is handled from birth or acquisition 'naturally'; that can be as simple as never looking a non-dominant horse in the eye when trying to approach them. The primary difference I see is that the first method generally maintains the 'Me human me Boss, you horse you slave' relationship ( an oversimplification I know ) while the other establishes 'me two-legs leader, you four-legs follower' style that gets the horse relating to me in a way that's different from other people in our business that handle them traditionally. They don't run me down, nip or act up in challenge. Perhaps I've become more sensitive to their non-verbal messages!! BTW I've too many of them to concentrate on one technique or trainer style, and the older and more dominant the horse--especially mares--can be real tough nuts, but they're the herd bosses that are most important to influence!! WARNING::The success of 'natural' methods depends a lot on the individual human's ability to observe, understand anticipate and direct the horse's actions, and skilful riding requires as much if not more physical fitness and body awareness of the rider as the horse. There are a lot of clueless humans that think flapping a rope or tarp until the horse is bored is training, and those who pound off the poor animal's back at every stride and think it's riding; even a Level-10 schoolmaster won't tolerate that for long!! |
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dalimomma
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2009 : 7:14:23 PM
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I think the real issue here is the defintion of "training". I think that the natural horsemanship movement is an admiral attempt to move away from the "traditional" idea of "breaking" a horse. However I do not think it can be accurately described as "training" in the classical sense. The techniques are not really new but borrowed from the most rudimentary levels of classical training- such as any ethical well prepared classical trainer or instructor would teach a Pony Clubber or 4H-er. The techniques are certainly useful on the most basic level. The problem arises when an unethical person using "special "equipment or "magical" techniques suggests that the horse is "trained" by these techniques or that the person who attends a clinic or series of clinics becomes a "trainer".This is when everyone gets cheated and potentially injured.
The Masters of the Spanish Riding school in Vienna go out into the forest to select a birch branch to use for in-hand,long lining and ground work. It is not painted a special color- it is free. The horses willingly cooperate because they have a one on one lifelong relationship of mutual trust and respect with their trainers. The trainer and horse both work to develop their bodies and their skills.
This is the definiton of training and of course most of us cannot achieve this level- nothing even close. But it should be the model of training all who love the horse look to and learn from. |
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Horizon Structures
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2009 : 2:21:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AppPonyLady
The primary difference I see is that the first method generally maintains the 'Me human me Boss, you horse you slave' relationship ( an oversimplification I know ) while the other establishes 'me two-legs leader, you four-legs follower' style that gets the horse relating to me in a way that's different from other people in our business that handle them traditionally. They don't run me down, nip or act up in challenge.
I think that's an interesting observation. But I guess really people are doing a combination of both just like you are. The whole "natural training" phenomenon is not really anything new, it's just been packaged. The line between "natural" and "traditional" is very blurry. Good training is good training.
quote:
WARNING::The success of 'natural' methods depends a lot on the individual human's ability to observe, understand anticipate and direct the horse's actions, and skilful riding requires as much if not more physical fitness and body awareness of the rider as the horse. There are a lot of clueless humans that think flapping a rope or tarp until the horse is bored is training, and those who pound off the poor animal's back at every stride and think it's riding; even a Level-10 schoolmaster won't tolerate that for long!!
I couldn't agree more! It's all about timing and consistency. These are things that take a lot of hours in the saddle, attention to detail, finesse, and possibly even a bit of inborn talent.
- Nicole -
www.HorizonStructures.com
~__/>
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Horizon Structures
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2009 : 2:27:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dalimomma
I think the real issue here is the defintion of "training". I think that the natural horsemanship movement is an admiral attempt to move away from the "traditional" idea of "breaking" a horse. However I do not think it can be accurately described as "training" in the classical sense. The techniques are not really new but borrowed from the most rudimentary levels of classical training- such as any ethical well prepared classical trainer or instructor would teach a Pony Clubber or 4H-er. The techniques are certainly useful on the most basic level. The problem arises when an unethical person using "special "equipment or "magical" techniques suggests that the horse is "trained" by these techniques or that the person who attends a clinic or series of clinics becomes a "trainer".This is when everyone gets cheated and potentially injured.
Yes, I find the whole marketing of the "natural training" empires to be very interesting.
I believe you are essentially training a horse every time to step up to it (just like you're always training kids or a significant other?! haha. just kidding). You're basically always molding a horse, whether for good or ill. So in that sense I think everyone involved with horses is a "trainer." But I don't think waving a stick or making the horse follow you like a dog makes someone a professional trainer.
- Nicole -
www.HorizonStructures.com
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dalimomma
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2009 : 6:34:27 PM
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If you really think about it "natural training" is an oxymoron! What will horses do naturally? Eat,poop,walk,trot,canter,gallop,swap leads,jump- even the "airs above the ground" of the haute ecole are natural to horses at play or in battle- any horse of any breed can do all of this without any "instruction" from humans! I have seen my quarab gelding capriole in the pasture - he won't do it in response to an aid- and I certainly could not sit it! Any horse can jump but no self respecting horse would jump a 6 foot wall with a 4 foot ditch on the other side if he could get around it... Training asks horses to do natural acts(trot)on cue or in an unnatural way(piaffe,jog) or to do unnatural acts when we ask them too (hunt cooperatively with a predator, pick up a hoof to be cleaned). If you really think about this they are even more amazing animals.My horses know much more "human" than I do "horse"!
They are arguably the most abused species in history yet most of them continue to enter into relationship with us. How much they have to teach us!Perhaps we should not think in terms of one species being greater than or less than but just acknowledge "other than".Just imagine what we could do together if we gave them that respect and dignity!
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wuzyla55
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:41:05 PM
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Natural Horsemanship Training
